deconversion

Now that we know that God is not coming back to judge the earth...
Now that there is no Great White Throne Judgment...
Now that our mission in life is far from witnessing and soul-winning...

What matters most to you?

I've read some blogs on here in which people have mentioned that, in the Christian worldview, it was easy to just dismiss worldy injustices, believing that God will eventually set things right again.

But He won't.

So now what?

There is so much fucked up shit going on in the world, and it seems nearly impossible these days to get any accurate information about what is really going on globally. Now that I'm free to live for THIS life, and not the next, I want to be effective in bringing about some positive changes in the world. I'm interested in getting accurate information on issues that I might actually be able to do something about. Please respond with resources, thoughts, ideas, and things that you have become more aware of or passionate about since your deconversion.

V

My worldview, ideologies, etc have really not changed much at all with de-conversion. That is largely because during my many years as a Christian, I figured out that I could not give other people "the Bible says" or "God says" as a reason for anything. So I put in a lot of effort to find non-religious bases for my morals, politics, etc. The result was that I was (and am) not a conservative, a liberal, or a moderate; I was (and am) not a hypermoralist, or a hedonist. In short, for all that I was a Christian, I had based my worldview as far as I could on science, observation, and as global a view as I could manage.

Actually, I don't think my world-view has changed that much since my deconversion. I still hold many of the social/political views I had beforehand. What is missing is the mystical/magical/supernatural element. I never was much in favor of using "religious" arguments to advance various causes; to me, that shows a weakness in one's argument. If you can't base your case (for or against whatever) on the here and now, then maybe you haven't got much of a case. That doesn't mean that the religious viewpoint doesn't have a role to play in public discourse; it means use it carefully. When Dr. Martin Luther King used religious imagry in his speeches, he wasn't using it to convert others to his version of Christianity or to any religion for that matter; he was using it to convey a vision of secular civil rights in language both sides understood. It enhanced his mission, instead of detracting from it and distracting. Had it done otherwise, I am sure he would have framed his arguments in purely secular terms.

After my deconversion and reading the Bible through those eyes, I discovered that I never really believed in the God of the Bible anyway. The God I "worshipped" looked nothing like Elohim/Jehovah of the Bible. He was a kind, compassionate, merciful, and loving father. That God does not exist in the Bible. I also discovered that the teachings of Jesus I followed were summed up in about 2 pages (http://seekism.wordpress.com/archive/the-teachings-of-jesus/ , a 2005 blog) and I did not buy the rest of his teachings like this one: http://de-conversion.com/2007/03/27/wwjd-series-jesus-and-family-values/ .

In other words, my version of Christianity was personal to me and really not Christianity at all. Hence, I still really hold to that worldview (void of the imaginary friend). It's pretty much summed up in our "wager."

Paul

Valerie - great question! I have become more passionate about charities that are not related to religion. In particular, I find myself volunteering almost full-time for a charity that uses all of its money for rare cancer research. I figure investing my time in something like this may actually help future generations to suffer less than I have suffered.

I think the most powerful motivation to do good like this stems from from something that you have seen or faced that you would like to change in the world. There are many great causes...I have been thinking a lot lately about the need for access to water in so many communities...might work on that next.

Doing these things is definitely more important to me now than it used to be, because I realize that that I've only got one shot here. And everything won't be made right, so if we don't do it, it won't happen. I have a friend who died from a rare cancer at age 36. Maybe someone like him will come along in ten years and will have a longer happier life because of something I'm doing. Who knows....

I must say that while my worldview hasn't really changed since de-conversion per se, my OUTLOOK has become a lot darker. And with good reason I think. There's a LOT that is wrong with this world and religion is only a very teeny tiny percentage of that. There's so much wrong that it feels more than a little overwhelming, like you can't really do ANYTHING. When I was a Christian I knew I could at least pray and trust that that was at least doing SOMETHING. And at the very least I knew that no matter how bad things got, at least there would be comfort and reward in Heaven. God would take care of it all in the end. Now that I don't believe that, I just don't know WHAT to do about the bigger problems in this world. I definitely feel much more impotent without an all-powerful diety on my side... of course I was just as impotent BEFORE the de-conversion, the only difference was I was unaware of it.

I think that has been the hardest thing to overcome since deconverting. The fear of hell was hard for awhile, but in comparison it was a fairly mild mental hurdle. The hardest thing getting over has been that "loss" of a superhero friend who is going to help me, who is going to make everything okay, even if something really really horrible happens to me or my family, or the planet itself, it'll be okay in the end, because God will take care of us. That was a really hollow feeling the moment it hit home that it was never going to happen.

So while my worldview hasn't changed, I think it's safe to say that I have developed a heartier helping of existential dread since "losing god." :-)

Fearless, I am hearing you on the existential dread. I have found a way to balance that out some, and I don't know if anyone here would even want to hear it, since everyone has such a bad taste of "religion." I have been using some of Buddhist psychology and meditation. NOT any of the religious stuff, nothing supernatural like karma or rebirths or any of that. I basically found that some of the things they teach...suffering and relief from suffering, can really help me deal with my new godless reality. It has helped me feed my spiritual side a little bit without having to "believe" anything. Buddhists teach that if it doesn't work for you, you shouldn't do it. So I haven't been worried about being led anywhere, I've just been leading myself some and using their teachings to do it. Some of the things they say are so foreign to my Christian way of thinking - like it is okay to want to be happy and to pursue happiness. It has been good for me to hear things like that and to be challenged. I guess what it has helped me to do is accept things the way that they are as much as possible, starting with me. If I can accept that difficulties are just a part of life to work with, then it makes it easier for me to accept that there is suffering all over the world without feeling completely hopeless.

So this fits well into how my worldview has changed I guess. I have a slight bent toward western buddhism now, but I don't go to any meetings or anything. I listen to Audio Dharma podcasts and find that they are interesting and helpful. If nothing else, it is fun to be presented with something completely different and to free my mind up a little from the old ways. I love the idea of wishing myself and others health, happiness, peace and safety and learning how to suffer less. But I don't think I'm going to become a buddha or escape suffering all together, so I don't think I'll ever be a real buddhist. ;-)

I've been doing somewhat the same thing in that I've recently taken up yoga. Again, not for the spiritual aspects of it, more just as a workout, but man, whatever it is they tap into in your body really does leave me feeling energized and, dare I say it, optimistic in a way that I haven't know in quite a long time. I've only been at it for a month or so. I can't imagine becoming a full blown yogi, or going into trances where I "breathe through my spine" or anything, but for the time being, I'm just enjoying the new ride of "gathering in joy" during a sun salute. :-)

As I'm new to the forum, I just read this thread and couldn't help chiming it.

One of the reasons I became disillusioned with Christianity is my naturally dark outlook on life (www.despair.com for some really funny stuff. Look for the pessimist mug). I never could accept that god loved me personally. I'm just another cog in the machine. No matter how many verses you showed me, I just didn't beleive it. Needless to say, when my prayers didn't get answered, that re-enforced the gloom. I have never understood the "daddy" god. My god was "king" "master" "lord". I served him because it was the right thing to do, not because I loved him.

So, since I am new on this deconversion path, I will be interested to see if my outlook changes. I imagine that my guilt level will go down now that I'm not disappointing god by my every screwup!

Hi Warning...I'm actually the "Mary" who posted above. I changed accounts. We had an exchange about guilt recently in this forum...look around for it? I definitely lean toward pessimism. In the end I wasn't able to associate what is going on in the world with a loving God...even though I really believed He loved me for a long time.

I have always had this huge optimistic streak when it comes to what one determined person or group of people is capable of doing. Being an unbeliever actually reinforces that optimistic part of me and rids me of the other baggage associated with God/sin and all the rest. Now that I'm reading all of this stuff about evolution and genetics, I see on one hand how little one person will change anything on a grand scale. But then again, I see how one small mutation can start something huge. So I don't think we will ever really know how much our lives mean to those who come after us. Uncertainty is an interesting thing after years of having the answers in one book. :)

Hi Mystery (or whoever you are...or is that the mystery?),

If you're talking about the "no voice" thread, yeah I did read it and I identify with what was said there. If you're talking about a different thread, I don't believe I've read another one about optimism/pessimism. I'll look around for it.

You know, as a Christian, I believed it was wrong to be a pessimist, so I kept beating myself up about it and trying to by "more Christ-like" (can I get an "amen" here?). But as I've aged (like a fine wine, not cheese!), I've finally, finally, finally begin to accept myself for who I am. I AM a pessimist. Right, wrong or indifferent, that is what I am! Side bar: Joel Osteen makes me want to puke with his damn platitudes and mouth full of perfect teeth! But I digress...

And that is what started this particular journey. I asked myself what do I really believe about God? I only had a couple of answers. I believe that God exists. And, ironically, I believe that he does not answer prayers (at least, not mine). See the tension there? Especially in a Christian context? So, I've been looking into deism lately. But it is WAAAAYYYY too early to draw any conclusions.

I'll look for the book. Sounds funny.