deconversion

Even though I haven't been to church in a couple of years, I am SUCH a newbie to embracing life and viewing the world without Christianity. Please allow me to pick your brains as I learn to think outside of the Christian box.

Now that I am an agnostic/atheist/whatever, I am wondering what it means that I still feel like a spiritual person. If you've ever looked at the Myers-Briggs personality assessment, I am an INFJ. I have seen that described as the "self-help" personality type. People with this personality tend to read spiritual and self-help books and focus on personal growth and meaning. Yeah, that nails me, even though sometimes I think it's cheesy. So now it's me without God, and I'm not sure what to make of it. I have been drawn to some buddhist philosophy because of the focus on cause and effect, on what increases and decreases suffering, on interconnectedness and happiness. Those things seem pretty important when there is no God and we have this one shot at life. But then when I hear or read anything buddhist that is religious (and there's tons of it), I feel sick, because I don't want another religion.

When I try to examine what makes me feel like a spiritual person, it's the need or desire to see connections in the way that the world works and to allow them to inspire compassionate and wise actions. It's also the way that I am inspired by music, inspired to view art and enjoy its possible interpretations. I associated these things with being spiritual before...maybe because I thought God was somehow speaking through things, weaving them together to mean something "more." Is my whole idea of "spirituality" actually just a part of being an emotional, relational, creative human being?

Am I just feeling a "religion-shaped hole" in my personality. :-P

Can there be such a thing as a spiritual atheist? What would that look like? [If they lean toward some kind of good cosmic energy or something, I'm not into that either. I have a friend who encouraged me that I don't have to dump God all together - that "God"could be some kind of free-floating love or whatever, and that is just SO goofy to me.]

I think that there are a lot of atheists who would consider themselves spiritual. In my life personally I have never felt a desire to identify as a spiritual person or seek out spiritual experiences (even when I was a Christian), but I know there are several atheists who do. From what I understand, many atheists redirect their sense of spirituality toward science and attempt to educate themselves as much as possible about the ways our universe functions. Who can help but feel a sense of awe when looking up at the stars and contemplating how far away they are, how old they are, and how we ourselves are made of their very matter? As Carl Sagan often said, we are starstuff.

I also don't think you should be afraid to look at other religions, like Buddhism, but with the freedom to pick and choose what you agree with and what you think is crap. Although devout religious people all cherry-pick what information they accept as true and what values they believe, they are supposed to take the entire religion as a serious package. You don't have to do that anymore. You can read tons of religious and spiritual literature and glean a little from this and a little from that as the readings compliment your godless worldview.

Another outlet for atheist spirituality is the Secular Humanist community and Unitarian churches. The Unitarian churches provide a sense of community and ritual without the superstition and legality that comes with traditional religion. The Secular Humanists focus on the interconnectedness of all people, while celebration reason and ethics. If you're totally unfamiliar with them, you can get a good summary of these groups and their beliefs on wikipedia.

Lastely, I haven't read it myself, but I've heard a lot about The Little Book of Atheist Spirituality by Andre Comte-Sponville, which might be worth checking out. Here's a review from the Friendly Atheist blog.

I know I still feel a knee jerk need for spirituality, almost a year later. It manifests itself mostly when I'm in a particular setting or experience where my old inclination would have been to give thanks to God: after I've hiked to a vista; viewing a particularly awesome sunset; spending a really great day with my family, etc. My natural inclination is to say thank you, to give appreciating to God or the Universe for that moment. Only now... I have nobody to thank.

It's such a weird feeling. I want so much to show my appreciation and I just CAN'T. Oh sure, I could still say it, but I'd feel pretty stupid. I find so much wonder and amazement in the random nature of the Universe. I think the fact that we're even here is infinitely more amazing operating within that mindset than within the mindset that a magic man in the sky said, "Poof," and here we are. And yet, a part of me would give anything for that magic man to really be there so that I could say, "Thank you so much for all of this."

Like you Mary, I've started delving a little bit into Eastern philosophy. Mostly so far, that has only manifested itself in taking up yoga. But the eastern religions and philsophies appeal to me because they have "here and now" applications beyond what happens to my eternal soul. There are emphases on reaching an internal state of nirvana or transcendence or whatever. I'd like to look into that, quite simply, because I think it would feel cool. Kinda like getting high without smoking a joint.

So, yeah, there is a still a largely spiritual side of me that has been longing for some kind of outlet ever since prayer was "taken away".

Fearless (do you mind if I use your real name here?), you bring up an interesting point about thankfulness. I definitely feel that same way at those times!

I also wonder - studies have been done about gratitude and its effects on happiness, sleep quality, health, etc. Some of them are more scientifically grounded than others, but most seem to point to psychological and possibly physical benefits of a thankful attitude. I agree that thankfulness seems to be associated with my own happiness, but I have come across the same issue you have. Sometimes there is a person to thank, but often there is not. "I am thankful that I felt good physically today. I am thankful that things went well with work." But what does that mean really? If I am not thanking someone, what does it MEAN? LOL Maybe it is not the actual thanking that is good for people - maybe it's just recognizing when good things happen - or it's the power of going over them in your mind (versus going over the bad things).

Ahh, I think I may be onto something there. Maybe it's simply the focus of our mind - whether we choose to dwell on the "good" versus the "bad" - how something hurt me, what I did wrong, etc. It does make sense that those thoughts would contirbute to unhappiness and that focus on the "good" thinks would lead to more happiness. Hmm.

Anyway, back to feeling the need to thank someone - YES. I get that heart-full feeling of WOW this view is amazing and WOW what a cool opportunity to even get to see it! I have felt that exact compulsion to say thank you - even out loud. Normally I just let it go and keep enjoying the view, but there is definitely some sadness in letting it go. I'm now learning how to see the wonder of even being here at all from the angle you mention - instead of from the *poof* creator. :) I think there will always be a heart-full WOW though.

Maybe for those "Wow! How amazing." moments, you could turn to music or poetry.

If you feel the need to offer up thanks, why not thank your ancestors. I'm constantly amazed when I consider the fact that I come from an unbroken line of surviors streching back millions of years. I think of my ancestors foraging for food during the cold northern winters 2000 years ago. I think about my ancestors that must have survived countless plagues and famine. I think of my great-great grandparents who traveled west and started farms 200 years ago to feed and raise their children. I think of all of the hardships that my ancestors must have endured, and I can't help but feel thankful. Thankful that they never gave up. Thankful that they raised children and had families and worked to hard to feed them and keep them warm and safe.

Thing is thanking ancestors is basically just trading one irrational behavior for another. The whole reason why I have a hard time giving thanks is because I don't believe there's anyone to hear me. I don't believe my ancestors can hear anymore than I believe a man in the sky is hearing me.

I don't mean to suggest that they actually hear us or that they exist at all any more in the slightest!

No I know. I'm just saying that my mind wouldn't be able to overcome that mental hurdle to fix this whole notion of having nobody to give thanks to.

My gratefulness to God has never been greater than after I left the faith. For me, it's just a deep gratitude and appreciation for whatever allowed me to have this experience of life, this opportunity of existence. And that thing is God, because in my mind that's how I define him. Thus pray still makes sense for me. Even though it's quite possible it's a one way street, and the only things that really makes sense are the words 'thank you,' it keeps life in perspective, and perhaps, whatever it is that caused all of this to happen appreciate's the gesture :)

A good comparison would be getting a mystery present on Valentine's day. You can still be appreciative and grateful for the present without identifying the giver - and you could express that on your Facebook status or something :p

Good point micthacks. Never thought of it that way. I imagine I'll probably get over this mental hurdle at some point and go back to just a mindset (if not a belief) of a supernatural "something" that can hear and appreciate.