deconversion

I took biology in a Christian school and did not get it in college, so I recently realized how totally ignorant I am about evolution. I'm not sure what I think of Dawkins yet, but I have been watching this amazing series of lectures he gave to kids years ago. It has been a lot of fun and has introduced me to tons of interesting material to ponder. The series of five lectures are free to watch on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/user/richarddawkinsdotnet#g/c/ED4BA3683D0273ED

If you come across resources that would be especially valuable to others in this situation - about sciene or anything else - maybe you could post them in a reply to this message? I am just starting out and am eager to learn more...I certainly am not alone! Free resources on the internet are especially helpful. :-)

I'm currently reading Dawkins' newst book, The Greatest Show on Earth, and I would really recommend it. The purpose of the book is to illustrate how we know that evolution is true. It's aimed at winning over creationists, so it starts from scratch, assuming you know next-to-nothing about evolution.

Regardless of what you think about Dawkins when it comes to religion and his attitude toward Christians, he is a true expert when it comes to evolution, and he conveys ideas flawlessly. He's both intertaining to read and easy to understand.

Another fun (although time consuming) resource is talkorigins.org, which is an archive made to debunk creationist myths and their misconceptions of evolution. There are several different ways to explore the archive, you can search for something specific or browse by topic.

In terms of general science, anyting by Carl Sagan would be a great read, Cosmos is a great overview of the history of science. If you have Netflix you can stream his brilliant 13-part documentary by the same name.

I really liked The Greatest Show on Earth, but of all the Dawkins I have read, my favorite so far is The Selfish Gene. Every once in a long while I read a book that makes me think really hard, and entirely changes how I look at a particular subject. The Selfish Gene is one of those books. (Godel, Escher Bach is another.)

As a kid, two miniseries had a big impact on me: The Ascent of Man, and Cosmos. I highly recommend them both.

Thanks to you both! I started the Cosmos last night. :) I think I'll get hubby to watch the next one with me. We are both discovering a love of science that we didn't have earlier in life.

I've been trying to decide which Dawkins book to read first. I read before that the God Delusion was good, so I thought I'd start there, but the Selfish Gene sounds really interesting from what I've heard of it too. I think I'll wait until the Greatest Show comes out in paperback- sounds like I should definitely read that one too.

Well, with Dawkins, it depends on what you want to focus on. The God Delusion is specifically about atheism, not really about science. It's good, but if you are looking for science, start with the others.

The Selfish Gene is good one to start with. I have also read and can recommend Climbing Mount Improbable, and The Blind Watchmaker. The Greatest Show on Earth is about all the different kinds of evidence which each individually support evolution, and which together make up an overwhelming amount of evidence. The Ancestors Tale is really long, but can easily be read in small chunks, so it doesn't really feel that long as you are reading it.

The books on Chimpanzees and Gorillas by Jane Goodall and Dian Fossey are also very good. When I hear fundies say they don't like the idea that they are descended from apes, my first thought is that they don't know very much about apes. I have more respect for apes than for some people I have met.

Thanks, Ubi. I went to the library today. I had to go to the central one in my city to get any of these books, which is sad! So I got the selfish gene and the god delusion, along with some other things. I watched the second episode of Cosmos today - great stuff.

This exploration is bringing about a lot of feelings too. I think of my nephew and godson and how talking with them about these things could be fun and would spark their interest. But of course their parents would object to all of it. I HATE to think what my very intelligent nephew is being taught about evolution and origins in his video home schooling classes. UGH.

I also realize that missing out on all of this information when I was younger has really influenced my life. I am dealing with some anger, because I think I would be a much more intelligent and useful member of society if I had spent all of those years focusing on something other than religion and "spiritual growth." It is a bit disheartening to think of who I am now and who I might be if I had been encouraged to pursue science and achievement.

This exploration is bringing about a lot of feelings too. I think of my nephew and godson and how talking with them about these things could be fun and would spark their interest. But of course their parents would object to all of it. I HATE to think what my very intelligent nephew is being taught about evolution and origins in his video home schooling classes. UGH.

It makes me sick too. Sometimes I'm just shocked about what I was actually taught in school, taught as fact. Some of the things are so laughable. Just today I was thinking about how I was taught that God created rainbows after the flood, just like it says in the Bible. That implies that God also created physics after the flood. I'd like to know how the world worked with no physics. How ridiculous. Additionally, I was taught that before the flood, it never rained in the earth, but the "water vapor canopy" provided a gentle mist, like the light misty rain in Hawaii. HELLO! The pre-flood earth would have been absolutely FULL of rainbows! It would have been Rainbow City!

It's so sad to think that so many youths today are being taught utter falsehoods. It's so hard for me knowing that my own young siblings are being taught this garbage. It makes me what to cry to think about how they'll probably never learn about how amazing evolution is, or marvel at the extreme age of the universe. I hope some day I'll be able to talk to them about these things, but when I finally told my mom I accept evolution she made me promise never to talk to them about it. Again, what kind of education is that? Sheltering your children from hearing an idea? It's intellectual abuse.

I too never believed in evolution, mostly because it was never explained to me well enough that I COULD believe it. The book that initially opened my eyes was "How the Mind Works" by Steven Pinker which is all about how evolution shaped the way we think, the way we act and the way we interact with each other. It's mind-blowing stuff, though I don't know if I'd recommend it as an evolution primer. It's pretty dense stuff at times.

For my money, The Ancestor's Tale was perhaps THE most fascinating thing I've ever read about life on this planet. Yes it's a thick book. I say buy a paperback of it and read it with a pen. But this is Dawkins at his best. You rarely feel like you're being taught science. He just tells the story of human evolution "in reverse" starting from humans and going back through the very first organisms. Blew my mind several times over. I wrote a review on Goodreads if you're curious www.goodreads.com/review/show/33248397

I also liked The Selfish Gene, though not as much as Ancestor's Tale. The God Delusion I actually got bored with and stopped reading after about 100 pages. It was clear that Dawkins was grinding an axe in that book and he just didn't paint the vivid and inspiring prose that he manages in his evolutions books.

I'm looking forward to The Greatest Show On Earth, but I'm waiting for it in paperback so I can mark it up without feeling guilty. :-)

Yes, the God Delusion bored me too. Dawkins on a soap box. UGH. I just gave it up and am making my way through the Selfish Gene. It is pretty slow at times but worth the read. I think I'll try the Ancestor's Tale eventually too - thanks for the recommendation. "How the Mind Works" sounds like good stuff too!

Ancestor's Tale is actually the book that made me acknowledge that the liklihood of intelligent life outside of our planet might actually be a far fetched possibility. Sure there might be bacteria out there. In fact in other things I'm reading it sounds like the basic DNA structure of single-celled organisms seems to be favored by the laws of Thermodynamics. But the process that brought about complex organisms was so statistically unlikely that it seems almost impossible that it would have happened twice. Which means we could very well be alone in the universe... funny how science can make us feel even more special than religion in that respect.

But, with the vastness of the universe, it is very possible that there are millions or billions of other planets where life has also started, so even something that is a very slim chance could have happened many many times over. The real problem is the vast distances between stars, and the inconceivably large distance between galaxies. The universe may well be brimming with intelligent species, but all of them so far away from us that we may never find them, let alone be able to carry on a conversation. The portion of our universe that we could reach with a signal and get an answer back within one lifetime is an amazingly small fraction.

It's possible that we are not special at all. But we might be special in our own neighborhood.

Here's a thought on other life.

According to the latest observations, space and time are not inifinte, at least in our universe. But Space is Big. Really Big. You may think it's a long way down the road to the Chemists', but that's just peanuts to space.

As long as no Vogons show up.

I have to admit right off the bat that I am not mathematically, scientifically or biologically adept. In fact, these were the subjects I abhorred in school. I was a Mass Communications major and the one thing I was taught quite well is to question EVERYTHING. There is a saying taught to all Mass Comm majors, "If your mother says she loves you, question it."

That questioning nature was already in me from very young though, which is why I could never swallow all of the nonsense from religion. However, after saying all of that, I do love to research (another Mass Comm trait) and I love to read. I think it will be fun to learn as much as I can to completely dismiss the religion that was pounded into my head for so many years.

At this point, I only know that my brain cannot accept religion as a viable excuse for origin. I cannot say that at this point I am wrapping my head around the science of evolution, but I do hope to do so in time.

You know, I never really enjoyed science and history that much. But learning about evolution and nature and the history of peoples is so fascinating for me right now. I think part of it is that I know I need a broader understanding of the universe now that God isn't the automatic explanation for everything. So here is the online stuff I've enjoyed so far:

Judgment Day: Intelligent Design on Trial (lots of good stuff!)
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html

Anthropology Section on Nova
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/programs/int_anth.html

The Bible's Buried Secrets
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/bible/program.html

Cosmos on Netflix (the first episode is really slow - they get better):
http://www.netflix.com/WiMovie/Cosmos_The_Complete_Collection_The_Shores_of_the_Cosmic_Ocean/70119123

The Dawkins Lectures
http://www.youtube.com/user/richarddawkinsdotnet#g/c/ED4BA3683D0273ED

Oh another one that is just cool no matter how scientifically illiterate you are:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

this is the Brian Greene NOVA series on String Theory. And it will BLOW... YOUR... MIND.

It's a three hour commitment, but well worth it.

I am another who is scientifically illiterate. However, I would be willing to learn more about evolution. Thanks for the links!

I just watched the Nova "Becoming Human" series online - I really enjoyed it!!!

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/beta/evolution/becoming-human-part-1.html

..of course their parents would object to all of it. I HATE to think what my very intelligent nephew is being taught about evolution and origins in his video home schooling classes. UGH.

You might want to look at some resources that you can help give to the parents too I might think that if you were to "pre-screen" the materials to tell if it could slip pass them

Just a thought :)

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