deconversion

On this side of the argument, it seems so strange that people still cling to their faith. I've been an agnostic for 10 years now and am still just as astonished that more people don't make the leap.

I was raised in a very strong christian home. Out lives were centered around our faith. Our social lives, sports, extra curricular activities and education were all based out of the church. Questioning the faith was never an issue, because I was never aware that there was anything else out there!

Of course, that had to change eventually. Middle school and high school were eye opening, but I clung to the faith of my parents. By this point I realized that questioning my faith was an option, and while I had started to identify the innumerable logical fallacies that make up christianity, I always strove to silence the doubts. After all, the alternative was hell, so it was a simple choice.

In college I began to realize that the world my parents taught to me wasn't exactly the same one we were all living in. I realized that the rational processed of my mind were the only means through which I could experience this world. I began researching the doubts I had in my mind about christianity. I studied some philosophy, psychology and history of religion. I read every book I could get my hands on for both the skeptic and apologetic arguments. All the while, I attended church. I prayed. I even defended christianity in discussions with my best friend, as staunch atheist.

However, at the end of the day, the case was clear. In all the countless hours I spent reading, the hundreds(thousands?) I spent on literature and the dozens of clergy I spoke with, I did not find a single piece of evidence that supported a basis for religion...ANY religion. I realized that outside of the emotional and psychological attachments humans have to their faiths, those belief systems are a deck of cards. Absolutely hollow and without meaning.

If all of my thought process took place on a one man island, then this would have been a fairly easy process. Once I jumped off the ledge, I was no longer held back by the guilt that comes along with doubting your faith. I put a lot of work into my deconversion, but it was a very clear, self-evident conclusion.

Unfortunately, I live in a world/country that makes it very uncomfortable to be so radical as to not believe in a god or religion. I'm appalled by the reaction I get from people and the judgment I receive from people. These are the same people who cling to absurd beliefs and they're judging me?

In all this time I have never discussed this with my parents. For the first 4-5 years I went through the motions when I was around them in order to keep the peace. I was very good at pretending, but eventually, I couldn't go on being such a hypocrite. Over the past few years, I've managed to completely avoid the issue and not so artfully dodge religion conversation. I was always traveling for holidays so I was able to avoid christmas, but this year my luck has run out. I know my mother suspects my "faith is wavering," and is dead set on making an issue of it over christmas. Should be an incredible debacle, but no minds will be changed at the end!

By this point, I feel very strongly about religion. I will admit to being fairly bitter about it because, I feel like I was lied to and manipulated. Of course, those doing the lying and manipulating are brainwashed individuals who believe they're doing the right thing. That line of reasoning has brought me to believing that religion is a truly destructive and amoral force. If I could borrow a word from religion, I describe religion itself as evil.

I will also admit that not a single day passes that I don't feel angry at the world for the way it views this issue and how it treats people who don't go along with the mainstream. My wife tells me to let it go, but when I watch and news and see how deeply religion penetrates our lives and impacts every aspect of what we do, I become incensed.

So anyway, I had intended to keep this short and not rant, but I obviously failed. I'm excited to have found this site where rational discussion occurs and experiences can be shared without judgment. I may need some help myself after this holiday passes!

Happy Holiday!

Good luck over the holidays. If you really bring this out, no matter how careful you are, no matter how calm you remain, I will be surprised if your folks don't get upset.

Leo,

Thanks! I plan on enjoying the time with my family, so I'm hoping I can continue dodging the questions!

Seeing religion as evil does seem to be an odd stance to those who believe in it. That's why I usually keep that view to myself.

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

I've got a very similar story, although I found myself slipping back into religious thought after some personal crises made me reconsider the radical skepticism I'd adopted. I've now managed to find a middle way that doesn't indulge the supernatural but also doesn't doubt everything, in some kind of cheap, pop-post-modern way. It has taken quite a long time to get here, frankly, and I, like you, blame my family for thoroughly brainwashing me. Although I know they were also brainwashed, I wish they'd at least let me evaluate the options instead of ruling them all out without any consideration. They never had any problem seeing religion as evil, as long as it was someone else's religion, or lack therof. Theirs is beyond question.

I'm facing a similar challenge this holiday season. My girlfriend, a happy atheist who never had to deal with any of this stuff, really doesn't get it, although she's supportive. I wish you all the best in your dealings with pushy family members trying to re-convert you. Know you're not the only one! Try to think of it as a chance to practice patience.

JD

I've now managed to find a middle way that doesn't indulge the supernatural but also doesn't doubt everything.

While I think doubt is a good thing, I also think it's great to leave a door open for the possibility that there very well may be something supernatural out there. As long as there's evidence...

As far as seeing evil in all religions except for their own, just ask them to apply the same scrutiny to their own religion that they apply to others. One of my favorite quotes:

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. – Stephen Roberts

Well, I have to leave the door open for the unknown. I have left behind dogma and total certainty in all forms, so I'm fully aware that all sorts of surprising things may be true, and that's an exciting idea. And the door is always open for the imaginative and the creative--equally exciting. But as for the supernatural... it's a category that makes no sense. How could we have any knowledge of anything outside of nature? How could it have any relation to us? It's sort of an empty category, and I don't really need to think in those terms anymore.

'Unknown' is probably a better word for what I was trying to describe. Then again, I leave my mind open to the possibilities if evidence is presented for something exists beyond the natural laws that we currently hold to be true. I'm not holding my breath...

Definitely an empty category! I think humans have reached into their imagination in order to fill the emptiness and the result is religion of one sort or another.

I do think the way we have used our imaginations to fill the gaps is pretty cool sometimes, though! I guess in trying to work out my own religious issues, I've become sort of an amateur scholar of religion. While it's too true that in the real world, people use their religion to justify all sorts of horrible things, on the page, I think religions and mythologies (religions as mythologies?) are a fascinating legacy of all human cultures, and they have value... as stories, not as keys to some ultimate Truth.

"I will also admit that not a single day passes that I don't feel angry at the world for the way it views this issue and how it treats people who don't go along with the mainstream. My wife tells me to let it go..."

Like you, I am a deconvert. And like you, I came to deconversion by much the same route. There was no one ah-ha moment where I woke up and said that I no longer believed.

But I must take issue with the idea that religion is evil. Yes, religion has been and is being used for evil, there is no doubt of that. And the seeds of that evil are within each religion's sacred writings, something that religious people of whatever faith need to acknowledge and address. And yes, I do feel like I have been lied to.

But religion has also inspired people to do good, to reach beyond themselves, in ways that "rational" agnosticism and atheism have yet to do. While I now call myself agnostic, still I have to say there is something missing from that worldview. Is it possible to integrate the "good" from religion without having to subscribe to all its beliefs? I don't know.

One of my favorite books when I was a child was "Black Beauty" by Anna Sewell, a Quaker. Next to the Bible itself it is probably the book that influenced me the most. There is so much wisdom in its pages. It is much more than the story of a horse. At one point in the book, Sewell has one of her characters say, "Men can talk about religion all they want, but if it does not make them kinder towards other creatures and their fellow men, then it is all a sham."

And I think that is the heart of the matter, not whether a holy book is literally true in all particulars, or even whether there is or isn't a god, but what kind of behavior does it inspire.

But religion has also inspired people to do good, to reach beyond themselves, in ways that "rational" agnosticism and atheism have yet to do. While I now call myself agnostic, still I have to say there is something missing from that worldview. Is it possible to integrate the "good" from religion without having to subscribe to all its beliefs? I don't know.

I understand this feeling, but I agree with Christopher Hitchens challenge on this. Those acts of kindness and good don't require religion to have happened. We give religion the credit, but if religion didn't already have such a prominent position in our society, I'd suggest that we would still have the same acts of kindness and good. Good people will do good, with or without an religion to tell them to do it.

Anyway, Happy Holiday!

Religion has also inspired people to do good, to reach beyond themselves, in ways that "rational" agnosticism and atheism have yet to do.

AndrewMT: Hitchens may be right or wrong. But what Eve's Apple said sums of the facts as they stand. Hitchens theories don't change that. So until agnotsticism/atheism have seriously begun to feed, clothe, house, medicate, educate, etc the underprivileged on a level with religion, I think it behooves us to watch our criticisms lest we be found hypocrites.

What?!?!? But I watched Hitchens on Youtube and I thought he was never wrong! (heavy sarcasm)

I realize that a lot of good comes from religion. It inspires many people to do those things you mention. I guess to me it's just very tainted. Those good effects don't justify what I view as the bad side of religion.

In the absence of religion, I believe those same people would still find inspiration to do those good things. They might have to find less mystical sources for the inspiration, but good people will do good things...attributing it anywhere they choose.

Atheism/agnosticism is not a religion, and will never replace what religion brings to people. It's role is not to inpsire us to "feed, clothe, house, medicate, educate, etc.," so I don't think it's hypocrytical to heap on the criticism.

And to provide a quick update:

The holiday with my parents was good. I had the flu, which dampened the fun, but it was a good visit.

I avoided religion as much as possible, but my mother was persistent and eventually she trapped me into a discussion about what I believe. I'm not willing to lie about it, so I came complete clean. She was obviously upset, and didn't have any idea that I'd felt this way for so long. Not surprisingly she didn't have much of a thought out response.

What did suprise me is that she said she was much happier knowing than not knowing. I had kept them in the dark to avoid hurting them, but they seem to honestly prefer and open discussion. We'll see if that remains true over time, but it was a much better start than anticipated!

Andrew,

I'm happy to hear that it went well.

I have a similar story in that I was suprised by my wife's response to my agnosticism. While she continues to claim that I will "come around" (read: come back to christianity), she suprised me by stating that she would be interested to hear what I've been reading, thinking, etc.

IMO, this is a major step for her. I don't know if this will lead to her deconversion, but it will at the least bring everything out in the open.

I guess sunshine really is the best disinfectant.