deconversion

Original Post No 'ah ha' moment for me. More of a prolonged 'oh crap' process. Since my wife and kids remain in the faith, I won't totally shake it off I suppose, but somewhere along the line in the past few years I definitely did cross a line and no longer have any thoughts about there being a god. It's just too flamin' obvious now.

Leo,

I was rereading this thread and you may have addressed this elsewhere, but how do you deal with your wife still being a believer? My wife is too and that's fine, but she persists in a belief that I'm just going through a phase and I'll get over it.

Without screaming "There ain't no god!" at her, I don't know how to get her to understand that my deconversion is real. I'm not a christian any more and unless archaeologist suddenly find proof of most of the old testament, there is no chance that I'll go back. Even if they did, there is only a chance. But I'm not worried about that.

So, what did you do? Do you and your wife have peace or an uneasy truce? My wife and I aren't screaming at each other, but there is a tension between us in this area.

Hmmm, not an easy one. It's a truce really. It took her a while - circa a couple years - to really figure out that this was not a phase at all. Now I think she realizes it's permanent.

Thanks.

I'm bothered by a cirumstance I find myself in: at the time I "announced" my deconversion to my wife and therefore my desire to stop attending church (synagouge actually), she stopped attending as well, but for other reasons.

So, I have two things that are bugging me.
First, whenever we socialize with someone from our former synagouge, she asks me what we are going to tell them if asked why we stopped attending. I tell her that I'll tell them that I am not a believer any longer. Well, she doesn't want to do that! I partly understand because I know that in that community, what I've done is just unheard of. And I'm sure she doesn't want to deal with forty questions, but more importantly, she doesn't very concerned with what she thinks they will think.

However, I also know HER and I know that she doesn't want to admit to herself my deconvesion. I believe that this is a way for her to continue (in her mind) with the idea that I'm just going through a phase. So I feel like I'm in the twilight zone, not a believer, but not able to be open (at least with some) about my atheism out of respect for my wife.

Did you go through this? Did you just ride it out quietly until she was able to accept your deconversion? Can you be open about your atheism around her and her church friends? Or did you force the issue by blurting it out somewhere when she couldn't stop you?

The other thing that's bugging me is her apparent shallowness. What I mean is that she wants to attend a new church (for one thing our former one was 30 miles from our home and there are dozens within 5 miles. Welcome to the south!), but I don't hear her talking about doctrine, preaching, worship, none of that. What she talks about exclusively is making friends. Its as if that's all she really cares about. I thought christianity (church attendance) was about more than friends.

When I was a christian and we were considering churches, making friends was one of the last things I thought about. I partly didn't care ( I AM a jackass after all!), but I just figured that friends would come naturally.

So I don't get it. I've tried to tell to her that church isn't the only place one can make friends, but she seems to feel that "church folk" are the only people she can be "real" friends with. What is sad is that she is the outgoing, bubbly one. She could easily make friends anywhere, but she restricts herself. I've encouraged her to have some of her coworkers over, have neighbors over, "friends" from a couple of her hobby groups. Nope. Not a one.

I don't know what to think or do or even if I should concern myself with it. I do concern myself because sooner or later, when we make friends at the new church, beliefs are going to come up. Then what? Where's she going to be when I have to honestly tell them I'm an atheist? I don't think she's thought about that or, if she has, she still thinks I'll get better by then.

Synagogue eh. Were y'all into the messianic Jewish stuff? Just curious.

Why yes we were. About 7 years worth. If I had remained a believer, we would probably still be involved albeit with a different congregation. We kept the sabbath, the feasts, ate kosher (biblical, not rabinic. There is a HUGE difference). We really enjoyed it until...

Until Scott has to start studying things. Asking questions that people didn't like. Getting blank looks from those people. Noticing that Jew and Gentile weren't one in Messiah (in practice) after all. (For the uninitiated, that's a reference to a Paul Wilbur song)

Until Scott noticed that there was no form of congregational government. The rabbi just said and did what he wanted. If you didn't like that, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Until Scott noticed that there was no accountability with the money...and Scott had been down that road before. "You just pay your tithes. I answer to God for how the money is spent." Not verbally mind you, but the message came through loud and clear.

Until Scott realized that his beloved "Jewish synagouge" was really just a church service with some jewish dressing. If a traditional Jew had actually shown up not knowing what we were, he would have thought he had walked into a non-denom church service.

Until Scott realized that we really weren't so "torah observant" after all. We did the basics, but lets not get crazy and require the men to grow beards or wear zitzits (tassels) or strange things like that.

Until Scott realized that the torah study material had a way of explaining away every possible negative idea of any of the patriarchs. Jacob dishonest? NO! He was just taking advantage of an opportunity. It was really ____ (insert name here) fault.

All that happened in rather rapid succession over the last couple of years. Its amazing what one can see when one opens one's eyes.

My wife is kinda southern. Raised in Texas by yankee parents. If I had to call it, I would call her a yankee excepting for her love for Texas.

I'll tell you what she is: a baby. If you have never read The Birth Order Book get it and read it. You'll understand. I am a first born and she is a baby. Kevin nails both of us. It is uncanny.

I generally have the same attitude you do. Unless someone asks, I'm not going to say anything because that would not just stir the pot, but boil the water!

The only hobby I have besides this site is reading! Actually I dabble in genealogy from time to time and she does play along when I do that. My problem is SHE is the social one. I guess I'll take it one day at a time (there's a thought!) and see what happens.

"Its as if that's all she really cares about. I thought christianity (church attendance) was about more than friends.

I really liked the messianic thing at first.

What really turned me off was the "you'll never be one of us" attitude I felt from the Jewish members of the movement.

I didn't get that in my synagouge, but the larger movement. I didn't like my rabbi personally, but I will give him credit for truly living out the "one in Christ" thing. But in the larger messianic movement? No way.

I honestly feel that the jewish attitude is, "this is our thing and we just put up with you gentiles because the scriptures say we have to".

Seriously.

At first it broke my heart because I thought I had found something real. Something different.

But gradually my sadness turned to anger.

Now I am almost to indifference. I still get angry sometimes, but not very often.

Heh. Sounds like me and Orthodoxy. Sounded good until I realized that they too were making shit up as they went along; just like everyone else. Oh, and they look kinda Jewish too; at least compared to Protestants. But no matter where you are, it always looks fine until you start asking questions and insisting on full and satisfactory answers.

What the hell are internal kung fu systems?

Whadda ya mean "at your age", punk?! You damn 40-somethings.

Actually, I'm almost exactly 2 years older than you.

Come on, I'll take you..as soon as my back stops hurting and my knees don't creak, but I'll TAKE YOU!

Assuming that you're not coming from a highly athletic background, you don't want to jump into a martial art system that is high impact once you get much past 40. Given your neck problem, that would be an absolute no-no. So Judo, JuJitsu, Sambo, wrestling are all out. Likewise you'd be ill-advised to go in for a striking art where you're apt to have any jerking of the head/neck due either to rapid motion, jumping, or blows. That puts out most karate systems, tae-kwon-do, and the harder kung fu systems.